We compare the cost of entry of the Avid Pro Tools Carbon audio interface with the Universal Audio Apollo x8p and the Apogee Ensemble, all similar priced audio interfaces with both native and DSP powered plugins.

Pro Tools Carbon

Pro Tools Carbon is the new kid on the block and the reason for producing this comparison article. Pro Tools Carbon is the first audio interface Avid has designed inhouse since the HD IO and HD Omni some 10 years ago. Avid has offered branded hardware since but this has been produced in partnership with other companies such as DAD and Apogee. Whereas, Pro Tools Carbon is an all in-house design. When paired with the new 2020.11 release of Pro Tools it offers some very interesting new features which promise to become absolutely indispensable.

It is a 1U hardware interface supports 24 inputs plus the talkback mic at 48KHz. This is provided via 8 mic preamps, 2 instrument inputs, 8 line inputs via TRS or D-sub, 16 ADAT inputs and a built-in talkback mic. On the output side, there are a pair of monitor outs on TRS, 8 line outs on D-sub, 16 ADAT outputs and 4 stereo headphone outputs.  All of which adds up to 34 outputs and it all works with the Native version of Pro Tools, even though there are 2 more outputs than the 32 I/O limit for Pro Tools Native.

It contains DSP similar to an HDX card, but physically it’s a 1U interface similar in appearance to the MTRX Studio. It is Mac only at present because it connects to the host computer via AVB. The host Mac needs to be running macOS 10.15.6 or later to support Pro Tools Carbon and Avid have worked closely with Apple on the AVB implementation. Pro Tools Carbon is currently macOS only because the Windows OS doesn’t support AVB at present.

Pro Tools Carbon has a hybrid mixer. It runs natively, like the mixer in a host-based system, but mixer channels can be switched to DSP mode on a per-track basis. When switched to DSP mode sub-millisecond levels of latency become available. Just like HDX, tracking through AAX DSP plug-ins is available on DSP enabled tracks but rather than switching between DSP and Native on a per-plugin basis as in HDX, in this hybrid environment the whole track including plugins, sends and output path gets switched and Native plugins get swapped for their DSP equivalent seamlessly. Where a DSP version of a plugin isn’t available the Native plugin is bypassed to preserve the low latency on the path.

Apogee Ensemble

The Ensemble has been around the longest. Check out our Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt Review from back in December 2014. In this article, Russ described how the Ensemble and it’s near-zero latency workflow-enabled him to move away from a Pro Tools HD system with an Avid Omni to Apogee’s ‘native/DSP’ system and he hasn’t looked back. This Ensemble is still at the centre of his studio setup today.

Highlights

• 30×34 Thunderbolt™ 2 Audio Interface for Mac

• 8 Mic preamps with up to 75 dB of gain and Advanced Stepped Gain circuit

• Thunderbolt connectivity for ultra-low latency (1.1ms round trip with Logic Pro X)

• Front panel Guitar I/O with Class A JFET inputs, dual mode re-amp outputs

• Talkback functionality with built-in mic and control button

• 2 PurePower headphone outputs

• 10 separately assignable analog inputs

• 16 analog outputs of premium Apogee conversion

• Core Audio optimized DMA engine frees up Mac CPU for plug-ins and software instruments

In his conclusion, Russ says…

“Has Apogee managed to put a little excitement back into the life of this old cynic? Does the Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt deliver on the sound and ‘ultra-low latency’ performance?

The simple answer is yes. Enough for me to have gone and purchased this unit, it’s not coming out of my rack any time soon. In the words of Victor Kiam “I liked it so much I bought the company.” Well not quite, but it is now my new interface, bought and paid for with my hard-earned. When I first saw the Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt I thought this unit was made just for me, now having used it I was right.

It’s not going to be everyone’s choice, especially if you are a PC user, but I think for those Mac users wanting a flexible, great sounding and low latency audio interface this one has to be on your shortlist.”

In 2017 Apogee announced a major update to the Apogee interface...

• Easily eliminate latency with new Direct Monitoring feature in Logic Pro X from 10.3.2, which we covered in our article Apogee Ensemble Update for Logic Pro Users

• Connect two Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt interfaces to your Mac to double your analog inputs and outputs

• All-new Apogee Control software replaces Maestro 2 and features a modern user interface you can customize for your workflow

• Apogee Control software also lets you control Ensemble Thunderbolt with an iOS remote app and the Apogee Control hardware remote

• Connect any Apogee Element interface to your Ensemble Thunderbolt and expand your system with Ensemble quality I/O at unprecedented prices

Universal Audio Apollo x8p

Universal Audio have had Apollo products for a while now but we chose the Apollo x8p as it is a current product with a similar spec to the Pro Tools Carbon unit.

In September 2018 Universal Audio released their third generation of the Apollo interface series, which were designed to raise the bar significantly in several key areas over the previous versions including better clocking, better A/D-D/A conversion and better mic preamp quality as well as a focused set of I/O including Hexa-core UAD-2 processing and surround mixing capabilities.

The Apollo x8p features eight of Universal Audio's Unison-enabled mic preamps, giving producers and engineers the tools to track drums and larger projects through classic preamp emulations from Neve, API, Manley, Helios. The new x8p with its 129dB dynamic range, switchable +24dBu headroom settings and 18x22 I/O is ready for anything you choose to throw at it. 

First up we get a brand new AD/DA converter package giving us up to 133dB of dynamic range and a THD+N distortion figure of -129dB (Apollo X16). Figures for the X8P and X8 are also much better. 

The new Apollo X Series gives us 50% more UAD-2 DSP power with 6-core processing up from the previous quad-core systems. 

For any of you working in the world of surround audio, the Apollo X Series now support surround formats up to 7.1, complete with built-in speaker calibration and fold-down.

A very nice and long-needed new feature to the hardware is an integrated Talkback microphone for improved communication with the talent and an easier way to slate your takes.

When it comes to DAWs that support the near-zero latency features on the Apollo X series you have 2 choices, Universal Audio’s own free LUNA DAW or Logic Pro X.

LUNA from Universal Audio

Simply put the LUNA Recording system is a recording, editing and mixing platform that delivers fantastic audio quality and performance from your Mac (a Windows version is planned) and Universal Audio Apollo and Arrow Thunderbolt-equipped hardware. 

In our article Universal Audio LUNA - A Tour Of The New FREE Recording System, James Ivey takes you on a guided tour of the LUNA software. Everything from getting started, installing and updating your LUNA Extension and setting up your hardware to looking at the three different types of track that LUNA deals with as well as learning how to navigate the application. 

Logic Pro X From Apple

In our article How to Combine Apollo hardware’s direct monitoring with software monitoring in Logic Pro X, Eli Krantzberg shows you how to combine Apollo hardware’s direct monitoring with Logic Pro’s software monitoring. Doing this allows for a simplified audio punch-in recording workflow with a consistent headphone mix.

The great thing about working with Universal Audio's Apollo hardware is the near-zero latency direct monitoring. The Console app also allows us to set up sends in order to monitor with effects, without printing them. This is great for example when recording vocalists who want to hear reverb in their headphones, while the track is recorded dry.

A problem arises when you want to punch in. The audio played back from Logic during the pre-roll will be dry. Here I’ll look at a workflow that involves enabling Logic’s software monitoring while also monitoring directly from the Apollo.

By enabling Logic’s “Independent monitoring level for record-enabled channel strips” preference, the output level of the record enabled channel strip can be pulled down completely while retaining a separate level when in playback mode. Working this way allows for the possibility of using pre-fader sends within Logic Pro X to monitor through software reverb.

How Do The Three Interfaces Compare?

To help compare the new Pro Tools Carbon with Apogee Ensemble and the UA Apollo x8p here is a table with the features, OS support, price and what bundles are included.

Notes

OS Support

When it comes to OS support, Mac users are in luck. Windows users can use an Apollo x8p but it would have to be with another DAW. Unfortunately at that point low latency support the only 2 DAWs that support it are macOS only with Logic Pro X and LUNA. The Apogee Ensemble is macOS only as are all the Apogee hardware and the problem with Windows support for Pro Tools Carbon is that the Windows OS doesn’t support AVB at present.

DAW Support

When it comes to DAW Support, to get the new zero-latency feature you need to use a DAW that will support that. Logic Pro X will support both the Apogee Ensemble and the UA Apollo x8p interfaces. LUNA only works with Universal Apollo interfaces, so that rules out the other 2 interfaces, or does it? Although it would be technically possible to use Pro Tools Carbon with other DAWs, only Pro Tools supports the DSP versions of the plugins and only Pro Tools has the DSP/Native switch, so in reality, Pro Tools Carbon is a Pro Tools only device.

Plugin Support And Bundles

This is one area where we see the most significant differences between the options, other than the price of the Apogee Ensemble.

The LUNA/Apollo solution comes with the free included plugins with LUNA and the UAD Realtime Analog Classics Plus Plug-in Package, worth $999.

The Apogee Ensemble does not come with any DSP plugins, you need to buy the Apogee FX Bundle consisting of all 5 Dual-Path plugins for $499. Once you have those, that’s it, they are the only plugins that currently can run on the DSP in the Ensemble.

Moving onto Pro Tools and Pro Tools Carbon, you get all the stock plugins, quite a few of which also come as DSP versions. Then there is the Avid Complete Plugin Bundle, which will be included as long as you maintain the Pro Tools Subscription Plan and the DSP plugins are listed in the 4th column in the table below. Finally Avid has included a special plugin bundle with Pro Tools Carbon, with a good number being DSP compatible.

This first table lists all the DSP plugins that are included with the DAW. As the Apogee Ensemble doesn't have a DAW, there are none listed.

This next table shows the plugins that are included with the hardware. The DSP plugins for the Apogee Ensemble do not come bundled with the interface so none are listed there.

To get the special dual-path plugins that can use the DSP in the Apogee Ensemble you have to buy them, either individually or you can get all 5 in the Apogee FX Bundle, priced $499 and these are listed in the 4th column.

This next table shows the plugins that are included with the hardware. The DSP plugins for the Apogee Ensemble do not come bundled with the interface so none are listed there.

To get the special dual-path plugins that can use the DSP in the Apogee Ensemble you have to buy them, either individually or you can get all 5 in the Apogee FX Bundle, priced $499 and these are listed in the 4th column

Pro Tools Carbon - Conclusion

It has been very educational undertaking the research for this article. The differences between the Universal Audio Apollo x8p with LUNA and Pro Tools Carbon with Pro Tools 2020.11 are small, the I/O specs are similar, the price difference is not huge. One area that gives Pro Tools Carbon an edge is the 4 separately addressable headphone mixes, the others can only offer 2, which is Ok when there are only a couple of musicians, but if you are trying to track a 4 piece band then the extra 2 headphone mixes are going to help to make the process even smoother.

The range of plugins that come with Pro Tools perhaps gives it the edge but I suspect it will come down to which DAW you prefer, Pro Tools or LUNA. Or course the Apollo interface will work with Logic Pro and Pro Tools as well as LUNA, whereas Carbon is really a Pro Tools only device, but because of that, the integration between Avid’s hardware and software is super-tight.

Bringing the Apogee Ensemble into the mix, it wins on price, being significantly cheaper than either the Apollo or Carbon interfaces. The big downside is that there are only 5 DSP capable plugins that you can use with the Ensemble although as Russ says “they are plugins that you would want to track through”.

Coming back to the main question “What price to lose the latency?” Towards the end of this article Pro Tools Carbon - Everything You Need To Know, Julian, says this…

“There will probably be some people reading this thinking that they track quite happily at 32 samples and this sounds like a lot of money for not much benefit. All I can say is I have tracked quite happily at low buffer settings. It works. However, the difference between low latency and (effectively) no latency is like that moment when sitting in a quiet kitchen and the fridge stops buzzing. You didn’t realise it was annoying you until it stopped, but when it went away it was just so nice!

Like many, I’ve never been tempted to get my own HDX system and it’s been a while since I’ve had access to an HDX or TDM system, so I’ve got used to the compromises you make using a native Pro Tools system because the cost of entry to HDX was just too high for me to justify. 

This is the point of Pro Tools Carbon. 

For those people tracking bands and solo musicians and, with a little imagination, even larger ensembles, Pro Tools Carbon makes the compromises go away without having to make the large leap in expense and complexity that an HDX system entails.”

There you have it, Pro Tools Carbon makes the problem go away without the significant expense of a Pro Tools HDX system. Yes, you can go for an Apollo/LUNA solution, which is cheaper and will provide a similar integrated problem-solving solution, but if you are wanting to collaborate with others smoothly then they will also need to invest in UA Apollo interfaces and LUNA to have full session compatibility. Whereas, as Julian has explained, the session compatibility with a Carbon interface and Pro Tools software and a non-Carbon Pro Tools system is very good.

Finally, it’s great to see Avid back in the interface market and with Pro Tools Carbon they are supporting a market sector that it could be argued they have not been looking after well enough for a long time.

Want To Buy Avid Carbon?

Unlike previous Avid hardware product launches, with Pro Tools Carbon you can buy it straight away from Selected Avid resellers.